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Cat execs?

Cat execs?

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by: bgbird68 Active Indicator LED Icon 8 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Oct 5, '15 5:51pm  
Cat execs?
 
"Not a redeeming one among them. All they are concerned about is how much money they can personally make. And they artificially inflate the stock price to do it. Caterpillar the company? The employees? They could care less. The greed is sickening."
 
From someone who knows.
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billybob Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 8 years ago   Oct 5, '15 6:17pm  
Not a redeeming one among them. All they are concerned about is how much money they can personally make. And they artificially inflate the stock price to do it. Caterpillar the company? The employees? They could care less. The greed is sickening."
 
@bgbird68 :
 
Thye stock price has not really been artificially inflated. Actually, it is the lack of an increasing stock price that is the cause of some of this situation. The hedge funds managers and others who are 100% driven by greed are starting to make noises about the lack of increase in CAT stock price. A couple of months ago there was a very direct blunt statement from one of the hedge hund share activists that the stock price was much too low.
 
An argument for the stock buyback program could made that it was to spread poor earnings out over less shares etc. and that, in the end, propped up the share price.
 
I was aghast to read the other day from a well known source that predicetd the bottom will be at $28.00 per share in 2017.
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jooerl Active Indicator LED Icon 2
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 12:30am  
Cat execs?
 
"Not a redeeming one among them. All they are concerned about is how much money they can personally make. And they artificially inflate the stock price to do it. Caterpillar the company? The employees? They could care less. The greed is sickening."
 
From someone who knows.
 
@bgbird68 :
 
From someone that knows, eh?
 
Let's begin with "All they are concerned about is how much money they can personally make." There has to be an indication of that. What is it, bgbird68? You said you know. Let us know.
 
Secondly, "they artificially inflate the stock price to do it." How do you think that Cat execs get by NYSE and SEC surveillance to achieve that?
 
CAT stock price is off about 40% from the highs. The stock had been locked in a 30 point trading range for the last 4 years before this recent downturn. How is any of that stock price manipulation or inflation by Cat execs, bgbird68? You say you know.
 
Of course, I think you can't demonstrate any of your suppositions. It seems you're all about the virtuous Cat union worker who is never, ever greedy.
 
Corporations do not exist for employees. Execs are employees. Corporations exist for their customers who buy the products and services. Employees are a by-product of that demand. Employees create those products and services but when the corporation experiences an economic downturn, revenues and income suffer and in order to keep the company liquid, companies have to cut costs in every area. But one area that can never be cut is the execs.
 
There's a hierarchy to everything. If you're at the bottom of the totem pole, you're going to suffer as an employee. If you’re at the top of the totem pole, you’ll be fine. That’s life in the modern world. Always has been. Otherwise we'd be laying off the President and congress for every recession.
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ChefKevin Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 5:42am  
Otherwise we'd be laying off the President and congress for every recession.

@jooerl :
 
Well, there is a thought....Emoticon
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Mahkno Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 6:31am  
"But one area that can never be cut is the execs."
 
There have been reductions. They are not as newsworthy. The choice of word usage tends to be different as well.
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bgbird68 Active Indicator LED Icon 8 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 6:52am  
Sorry, Joel. That wasn't from a union worker. Nowhere close.
 
I'll let you guess how a stock price could be artificially inflated. Seeing that you use big words like "suppositions", I'm sure you can figure it out.
 
And I didn't say "I know" anything about what I posted. Of course, I can't "demonstrate any of your suppositions" because I'm relaying what was said to me by someone who's opinion I trust.
 
Thank goodness someone is around to stand up for the millionaires.
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jooerl Active Indicator LED Icon 2
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 6:25pm  
Yea bg, I do know how a stock price could be "artificially" inflated and none fit the accusation of your post concerning CAT and Cat execs. What your post implies is that some sort of fraud is occurring at Cat.
 
Besides, if you'd just pull up and look at a chart for CAT you'd actually see that the stock price has deflated considerably. If someone is "artificially" inflating CAT stock price then they're going about it all wrong it would seem.
 
bg, if you think the word "suppositions" is a "big word" I'm not sure how to respond except to say I can dumb it down, I suppose, and use the word "suppose" or "supposing" in its place next time. You don't like people using "big words", bg?
 
"Thank goodness someone is around to stand up for the millionaires." -- That sarcastic sentence of yours seems to show you with some discrimination and biases in your blood. You don't like millionaires either? There is no virtue in being a millionaire or attaining an executive position at a Fortune 500 company?
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Mahkno Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 6:40pm  
'Artificially' raising the price through the use of buybacks is one of the express purposes of executing a buyback program. The persons in the company who decide on whether to implement a buyback program are often the persons who stand to benefit the greatest, among employees, from it. Executive compensation is often deeply tied to the stock price, more so than for those underneath them.
 
Buyback programs are perfectly legal. They have to be disclosed in advance.
 
Buyback programs are not always successful.
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shifty Active Indicator LED Icon 15
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 7:24pm  
Buyback programs are not always successful.

@Mahkno :
 
Bingo. No telling if the stock would have dropped sooner, but there's no question the widely-publicized buyback wasn't all that successful at propping up the price.
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Ptownliferalmost Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 7:33pm  
You would have to think that the most productive use of your capital (cash) generating the highest ROE (return on equity) would be buying back stock. Better returns than hiring/developing/training. Current management has failed - on buybacks and mergers/acquisitions.
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bgbird68 Active Indicator LED Icon 8 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 7:49pm  
Jooerl.....let's just say Cat isn't the place everyone thinks it is. And that's as far as I can go. And I have no problem with millionaires. I wish I was one. I just don't agree with the procedures some use to get to that point.
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billybob Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 7:56pm  
No one can be faulted for trying to make money or to become wealthy or for being born into money.
 
When you use the money to shelter yourself from the real world or to trample all over people to acquire more money that's when all kinds of problems start,
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QuispNQuake Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 8:52pm  
What your post implies is that some sort of fraud is occurring at Cat.
 
@jooerl : Gee, remember that place called "Enron"??
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bgbird68 Active Indicator LED Icon 8 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 8:54pm  
Gee, remember that place called "Enron"??
 
@QuispNQuake : When's there big money involved....anything can happen.
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billybob Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 8 years ago   Oct 6, '15 9:11pm  
@QuispNQuake
 
You are the first person that I have heard mention that name publicly. I am no where near that but others have brought it up in private conversation and none of them is involved in or with CAT. One of them is a forensic accountant. Based on what he has read in readily available reports he comes up with some interesting scenarios
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jooerl Active Indicator LED Icon 2
~ 8 years ago   Oct 7, '15 5:06am  
@Mahkno :
Your post is not entirely accurate or necessarily true.
 
There is absolutely nothing artificial about a company removing its own shares from the float. You make it sound like it's a manipulation of sorts. It's not at all.
 
Buybacks are carried out under specific SEC rules that curtail manipulation that could have any effect on stock prices. And market makers have guidelines they must follow as well. If stock prices move up or down it's going to be due to fundamentals and/or the broader markets. Implementing a buyback never guarantees a boost in stock price...not solely because it is a "buyback". Not even with a more handsome EPS. There are other variables. Novice investors may buy the buyback but more sophisticated investors like fund managers are going to need more than just a buyback to jump into several hundred thousand shares. Apparently you feel buyback programs are only successful if the stock price goes up. Shorts would disagree. Longs aren't the only ones in the markets.
 
But buyback programs always succeed in one thing every time. It decreases the shares outstanding thereby increasing value in that there's less supply to any demand for them. Something Cisco bag-holders would love to see happen to their float. Volatility isn't a bad thing.
 
"Executive compensation is often deeply tied to the stock price".
 
True. They also receive stock options with certain strike prices. In the case of Cat, all those options are underwater by about 20 points and are worthless.
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