If you are an athiest... on the Peoria.com Forums - Page 15

Aviator, you may just see me again here. When people are done eating their cheese with their wine.

Oh joy, I can't wait. Trolls amuse me.

Down, now, AV8R. Don't feed the trolls.

Crod, God believes in consequences. It's not to say that murderer/rapist won't ever pay for what he did. He will. And only God knows this person's true heart well enough to know if he's sincere or not in his repentance.

Sure, it's hard for us to forgive someone who has wronged so many people in such horribe ways but it can be done and it IS done by many people every day. I don't think you can do it without the help of God though.

And one more time: it's not the deeds that get you into Heaven. It's the faith. If it were the deeds, how many of you would buy your way in?

froggy, your last post brings me back to my question from earlier in the thread.

So, all the good deeds I have done in my life (and I have), those will count IF in the end I believe and ask forgivenness for having lost my faith.

or do you think that's wrong?

I don't understand this. Religious people love to say the de-moralizing and de-humanization of society is due to the loss of faith and simularly, that faith in god is required for people to be inherently good.
But, here you are saying that good deeds are worth nothing in gods eyes, if they are not accompanied by blind faith and allegiance to him. I have a feeling that there are quite a few so-called christians that would disagree with you.

So-called Christians might, true Christians won't.

So you also agree that the only thing that god cares about is allegiance to him, not the good deeds or positive actions of a person?

Good deeds, schmood deeds.

I'm talking about an evil person that kills, mames, tortures, then let's say he TRULY sees the light. He gets the golden ticket, regardless of his evil deeds. I just have a hard time buying that a supposed God would overlook such inhumane work, just because he truly found his faith at the end. Conversely, I have a hard time believing that a supposed God would overlooks good deeds from a non-believer and deny that person the pearly gates.

I'm talking about an evil person that kills, mames, tortures, then let's say he TRULY sees the light. He gets the golden ticket, regardless of his evil deeds. I just have a hard time buying that a supposed God would overlook such inhumane work, just because he truly found his faith at the end. Conversely, I have a hard time believing that a supposed God would overlooks good deeds from a non-believer and deny that person the pearly gates.

I won't be lonely, nor will I need matches. I think I fall somewhere between atheist, agnostic, spiritual humanist or Deist. I kinda like the idea of the spirit of everyone floating out in the cosmos somewhere. I think I do a pretty good job of living by Judeo-Christian principals because it is the "right" thing to do. I had been active in the church until about 25 years ago. I stopped when the feeling of being a hypocrite over came me.

It is what it is. It's not about allegiance to God. it's about truly repenting and begging for forgiveness. Accepting that Jesus died for our sins. ALL of our sins and that the path to Heaven, whatever you want to imagine Heaven is, is by accepting that fact, accepting Jesus and giving your life to God.

It's quite possible that those sins that were committed were part of God's plan to develop that person into who he, or she, becomes. Rising above the Earthly acts and the Earthly rules.

Usually, people who truly repent become more than just people who are sorry for what they did. They become disciples for God, spreading the word and comfortable in the belief that they are forgiven by the highest authority.

You have to think outside the confines of the boxed in little worlds we all live in and realize that, just as this planet is a microcosm of the greater universe, we are a microcosm of everything that is God's vision for us and God's plan.

By the way, part of being a Christian is to forgive and to not judge others

So is being a good person a part of the entry admission to heaven or not? Because both you and Froggy have said that it is not.

So, by that line of reasoning, everyone who "accepts" god on their deathbed is a perfectly good candidate for heaven?

From what you have said, accepting god as the master is the only part of being a christian that really matters.

A Giant Tortoise lives an average of 177 years. A Clam can live up to 400 years. Think that turtle or that clam cares about whether someone who lived a fraction of that time ever murdered someone (if it could care) that also only lived a fraction of that time? This is what I mean by the bigger picture, in an admittedly poor example.

Relatively, yes, I'd say someone who did inherently evil acts in life that truly, truly accepts Jesus as his or her savoir, who honestly repents those sins, if you can truly repent anything on your deathbed and who give the rest of their short life to God, is filled with the Holy Spirit is saved.

If our lives go on for an eternity after human death occurs, what are several decades on Earth compared to eternity?

Begging, that's a great thing right there. You have to beg this Guy in the Sky for his forgiveness and an afterlife with Unicorns and rainbows, what a joke.

Actually, people beg other people for forgiveness all the time. What makes it so much less to beg God for forgiveness?