If you are an athiest... on the Peoria.com Forums

Why are you?

Because everything we understand about how the world works says it's impossible for a man to have walked the earth performing miracles, rising from the dead, etc... Granted, there are still a lot of things we don't understand, but I think the bible is at best a spinoff of stories created around the time we became self-aware; we looked up at the stars, marveled at our insignificance, and behold, God was born. Maybe there is more to it than that, maybe not. I cannot completely dismiss the idea of God, but I can assure you that God isn't speaking to me nor can I claim to know what he wants. I have no reason whatsoever to believe anyone who says otherwise.

Despite not having a personal relationship with God, I know what love is, I know that life is amazing and precious. I think believing in God helps a lot of people, and that's great. It only upsets me when people try to push their ideals onto others claiming it's in God's name. Gay marriage, abortion (no exceptions), etc...

It isn't your job to judge others, or to try and cure this world of your interpretation of sin. We should be thinking about exploring the universe, and trying to understand how it all works, using every second we have to LIVE and help each other rather than swimming in a pool of self-reassurance while focusing on something intangible like heaven.

Does that answer your question?

I think the problem is that you have been jaded by Religious doctrines and philosophies. Organized religions make rules and try to sway opinions with their manifestos against the things you mentioned, and more. To me, those are cults that use fear and manipulation to control their followers.

Nowhere in the bible does it say that you have to be Catholic, or Methodist or Lutheran, etc.

It's not impossible for a man to walk the Earth performing miracles. David Blane does, ffs. It's not about walking on water, it's about what Jesus taught his followers about faith, about the promise of an eternal life in Heaven, whatever Heaven turns out to be as a result of that faith.

I think you're missing the whole point, Hip, not to mention you're being a complete hypocrite.

If it isn't about walking on water, then Jesus was just a man, like Ghandi or Buddha. Not a God, just a man. You don't really believe that, now do you?

Either way I don't have a problem with religion, and I don't have a problem with believing in God. My problem, is that I don't believe God touched you physically, spiritually or metaphorically. I'm not convinced that God is tuned into our brains like a radio. You're convinced he is, but I think it's more likely you're having some type of mid-life crisis or mental breakdown and you just need something to grasp onto. You've given up / let go of trying to control your own life and it's in God's hands now. Fine, whatever. Children do the exact same thing when they create imaginary friends. There is nothing wrong with it and it can be psychologically helpful.

But you see, I don't need whatever it is you're experiencing in my life, and I really don't appreciate you insinuating otherwise. From my perspective, you're playing make-believe and I don't want to play with you. I'm really sorry about that, but I'm a big boy and I can stand on my own two feet.

In the end, one of us will be right and one will be wrong...

and if WE'RE wrong, there are no consequences for us. The reverse is not true.

Circular philosophy. You can prove me wrong when the time comes, whereas it's impossible for anyone to prove you wrong. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I'm not citing it as proof of anything, merely pointing out the consequences of our respective ways of thinking. If you're RIGHT, then I'll just be dead. No afterlife.

If however I'm right....

I cannot prove either argument. That's why it's called "faith." I have faith He exists. You have faith he does not.

AV8R, I could just as easily argue that if I'm right, then maybe I'll still get into heaven, maybe it just doesn't have the requirements you think it does to get there.

Also if you're wrong, you may not think it has any consequences, but then again maybe it does. Maybe you weren't worshiping the right God, and you'll end up in the hell of some other faith.

Your argument has no merit when you're only looking at it from YOUR point of view.

well, there is that. I'm sure Muslims are convinced that as an infidel I will wind up in hell. Again...faith.

I guess there is a chance we're BOTH wrong! Maybe I'll see you in hell.

The problem with that argument is that our faith is reinforced by a book of instructions called The Bible. Yours is backed up by... nothing

I don't need anything to reinforce my beliefs, because I have deductive reasoning. What would you do without your bible, hip? What would you do without your fellow believers?

Same thing I did before I had a Bible. Have faith

Other then Scientific facts and proof the Bible is nothing more then reworded stories from other Mythos. You do realize the vaunted Christmas holiday you Bible Thumpers claim as Jesus' Birthday is nothing more then Christianities attempt to gain "pagan" followers by stealing their holidays right?

Hip, I see you expounding on your "vision". Lets see how lasting it is when things take a turn. I hope things continue to get better for you, but my guess is this. When the going gets tough again, religion will be out the window for you. Simply because you will realize it wasn't what changed your mindset.

"Religion" IS ALREADY out the window for Hip. That's ONE of the reasons he has victory.