Wisconsin Senate passes bill removing collective barganing rights on the Peoria.com Forums - Page 9

"The story is really about education cuts and not unions."

Please refresh your memory on the link posted above illustrating the fact that Illinois has a ONE BILLION dollar pension liability to cover the retirement expenses of 100 educators. Do ya think something might be amiss?

The numbers you reference from that blog are not teachers, not union members, and negotiated with the school boards to get those benefits. Can't blame the unions for that.

I said something is amiss. Would you not agree? Did I say "The union caused that". My point is that Wisconsin, along with other states, has significant palpable problems that need to be addressed through leadership. How on Earth can the Democratic party have any representation if their leaders flee the state during a crisis. It reminds me of what a parent teaches a child..."RUN AWAY!!!!" Call them the "Forrest Gumps" of legislators. RUN FOREST, RUNNN! (reach around to back and pat thyself!) These people acted like children, not adults, and now their constituency is paying the price.

Everyone talks about the problem, but no one talks about a solution. Clearly, taking the people's voice and not to mention an Internationally recognized Human right was a failure in Government, both Republican and Democrat.

I don't buy the argument they'd agree to concessions now, and next year want them back, it simply isn't in their best interest considering the funding for such demands would have to come out of increased taxes, meaning their paychecks.

This problem of financing pensions isn't just a Wisconsin issue, What is the solution?

There is a difference between leadership and bullying.

How exactly is their constituency paying the price?

Their constituency paid the same price whether the senators left the state or not. Sometimes you take a stand on principles. Collectively bargaining should be a right, just like voting and freedom of speech.

I think that is somewhat disingenuous since this is a thread about unions/collective bargaining.

"How exactly is their constituency paying the price?"

Did their supporters have any voice in the vote on Wednesday? No. Their representatives were out of state.

"Collectively bargaining should be a right, just like voting and freedom of speech."

That is purely an opinion. Not a law. There is no such "right", except in your head. Most people feel there is a difference between public and private unions.

"I think that is somewhat disingenuous since this is a thread about unions/collective bargaining."

This thread, as most of them do, has multiple themes.

My problem has been all along, not with the unions, who have a right to stand up for their families and livelihoods, but with their cowardly elected representatives who failed in their duties to represent them.

Collectively bargaining is an Internationally recognized Human right. Article 23 actually, of the Universal Declaration of Human rights.

Last time I checked The United States was in favour of the Declaration.

Never heard of it.

I have my own personal declaration of human rights, and I am in favor of that.

Just pointing out, it is indeed an established right acknowledged by the country you live you... not just in joe's head.

I think they represented their constituents in the only way they could. If they had been there the exact same result would have occured...at least this way it was delayed enough to bring some attention to it. It's not like these Reps were hanging out in Vegas or on vacation somewhere...they were still in contact and working trying to negotiate.

"There is a difference between leadership and bullying. "

I'm assuming we have both watched the same images on TV. Death threats, Armed security, screaming, shouting, assaults.

Agree on your point regarding the bullying. Completely disagree as to who is doing it.

I assumed you would.

Oh, so in other words, bullying is not OK, except under certain circumstances defined by you.